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	<title>Comments on: Hip Hop and Madison Racism</title>
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	<link>http://www.upthedownstair.net/2007/01/hip-hop-and-madison-racism.html</link>
	<description>Being a weeklie podcaste from Madison, Wisconsin featuring several remarkable curiosities therein occurring being a compendium of live music from divers artistes</description>
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		<title>By: Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.upthedownstair.net/2007/01/hip-hop-and-madison-racism.html#comment-280</link>
		<dc:creator>Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14036982.post-116949961174564340#comment-280</guid>
		<description>Marcus - can you contact me via email so I can ask you some questions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marcus &#8211; can you contact me via email so I can ask you some questions?</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.upthedownstair.net/2007/01/hip-hop-and-madison-racism.html#comment-281</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14036982.post-116949961174564340#comment-281</guid>
		<description>well I&#039;m a 24 year old CEO of TR Records in Madison and i have no problem with getting shows and radio play any ware but my own city. This is all because Madison don&#039;t want hip hop. But they can let a strings concert on the square and charge 30 dollars and get it. But i cant perform my music no ware. I got a large fan base in Madison, if people don&#039;t like what I&#039;m saying then don&#039;t pay to come see me,don&#039;t shut down all the clubs so i can make a living. You cant force me to work for somebody and make them money and not make my own money.It&#039;s not hard to make it it&#039;s just Madison don&#039;t want to selling out clubs and driving around in new cars off my music, they hate it..they hate us (black people)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well I&#8217;m a 24 year old CEO of TR Records in Madison and i have no problem with getting shows and radio play any ware but my own city. This is all because Madison don&#8217;t want hip hop. But they can let a strings concert on the square and charge 30 dollars and get it. But i cant perform my music no ware. I got a large fan base in Madison, if people don&#8217;t like what I&#8217;m saying then don&#8217;t pay to come see me,don&#8217;t shut down all the clubs so i can make a living. You cant force me to work for somebody and make them money and not make my own money.It&#8217;s not hard to make it it&#8217;s just Madison don&#8217;t want to selling out clubs and driving around in new cars off my music, they hate it..they hate us (black people)</p>
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		<title>By: Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.upthedownstair.net/2007/01/hip-hop-and-madison-racism.html#comment-282</link>
		<dc:creator>Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14036982.post-116949961174564340#comment-282</guid>
		<description>ob dan - you lost me right away. If racism is everywhere, then how could it have no effect? That&#039;s like saying oxygen is everywhere so no one breathes it. Its ubiquitousness doesn&#039;t render it impotent. It is not like an equation where a variable on both sides of the equals sign can just be removed.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;To be sure, money talks but, to the best of my knowledge, the Majestic&#039;s problems did not include a lack of patrons. And as far as radio stations go, hip-hop listeners are not exclusively black. Perhaps you don&#039;t know that white kids love the music too. In fact, I believe they are the biggest consumers of hip hop CDs.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I don&#039;t listen to much hip hop but I&#039;d prefer that the public airwaves be diverse and cater to as much of the public as possible. However, you are free to be as selfish as you care to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ob dan &#8211; you lost me right away. If racism is everywhere, then how could it have no effect? That&#8217;s like saying oxygen is everywhere so no one breathes it. Its ubiquitousness doesn&#8217;t render it impotent. It is not like an equation where a variable on both sides of the equals sign can just be removed.</p>
<p>To be sure, money talks but, to the best of my knowledge, the Majestic&#8217;s problems did not include a lack of patrons. And as far as radio stations go, hip-hop listeners are not exclusively black. Perhaps you don&#8217;t know that white kids love the music too. In fact, I believe they are the biggest consumers of hip hop CDs.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t listen to much hip hop but I&#8217;d prefer that the public airwaves be diverse and cater to as much of the public as possible. However, you are free to be as selfish as you care to be.</p>
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		<title>By: o.b. dan</title>
		<link>http://www.upthedownstair.net/2007/01/hip-hop-and-madison-racism.html#comment-283</link>
		<dc:creator>o.b. dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14036982.post-116949961174564340#comment-283</guid>
		<description>A war against hip-hop?  Hardly.  Racism in Madison?  Yes, but totally irrelevant - it&#039;s everywhere.  No outcry from the unwashed masses?  Nothing new.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The reality here, folks, is that ratings determine the per-minute price of advertising, and ratings are a figure based on listener demographics.  Even a large listener-audience can be meaningless if it&#039;s not a demographic group with money - specifically what&#039;s known as &quot;disposable revenue&quot; -to spend.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The easy-listening, country (and I don&#039;t mean Shania Twain), album-formatted, jazz, and other specific music listeners have gone through this same thing in markets across the nation.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Does the black community have money to spare?  No slur or badmouth intended here; I don&#039;t live in Wisconsin and have no local knowledge.  I do know that the white suburban middle-class wannabe 16-to-25 crowd has money, but are they hip-hop and/or rap fans?  Again, I don&#039;t know.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As the expression goes, &quot;money goes where money is.&quot;  And in my eyes, losing a rap or hip-hop station is more of a gain than a loss.  No racism there, I just don&#039;t like it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A war against hip-hop?  Hardly.  Racism in Madison?  Yes, but totally irrelevant &#8211; it&#8217;s everywhere.  No outcry from the unwashed masses?  Nothing new.</p>
<p>The reality here, folks, is that ratings determine the per-minute price of advertising, and ratings are a figure based on listener demographics.  Even a large listener-audience can be meaningless if it&#8217;s not a demographic group with money &#8211; specifically what&#8217;s known as &#8220;disposable revenue&#8221; -to spend.</p>
<p>The easy-listening, country (and I don&#8217;t mean Shania Twain), album-formatted, jazz, and other specific music listeners have gone through this same thing in markets across the nation.</p>
<p>Does the black community have money to spare?  No slur or badmouth intended here; I don&#8217;t live in Wisconsin and have no local knowledge.  I do know that the white suburban middle-class wannabe 16-to-25 crowd has money, but are they hip-hop and/or rap fans?  Again, I don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>As the expression goes, &#8220;money goes where money is.&#8221;  And in my eyes, losing a rap or hip-hop station is more of a gain than a loss.  No racism there, I just don&#8217;t like it.</p>
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		<title>By: Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.upthedownstair.net/2007/01/hip-hop-and-madison-racism.html#comment-284</link>
		<dc:creator>Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14036982.post-116949961174564340#comment-284</guid>
		<description>They look fly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They look fly.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.upthedownstair.net/2007/01/hip-hop-and-madison-racism.html#comment-285</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 07:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14036982.post-116949961174564340#comment-285</guid>
		<description>Do girls look good with hip hop &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.ballersice.com&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Grillz&lt;/a&gt; ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do girls look good with hip hop <a HREF="http://www.ballersice.com" REL="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Grillz</a> ?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.upthedownstair.net/2007/01/hip-hop-and-madison-racism.html#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14036982.post-116949961174564340#comment-286</guid>
		<description>Some of my best friends are black. Well, some people I used to work with are black. I really like Dave Chapelle, that&#039;s gotta count for something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of my best friends are black. Well, some people I used to work with are black. I really like Dave Chapelle, that&#8217;s gotta count for something.</p>
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		<title>By: Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.upthedownstair.net/2007/01/hip-hop-and-madison-racism.html#comment-287</link>
		<dc:creator>Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14036982.post-116949961174564340#comment-287</guid>
		<description>D - When I was growing up in the 1970s &amp; 80s, people whose ancestors came from West Africa and had a lot of melanin in their skin called themselves black and that&#039;s how everyone else referred to them. (At least those who were being nice.) I, being of European stock and having pale skin, was always referred to as being white and that&#039;s how I&#039;ve always referred to myself. I&#039;ll bet a dollar to a doughnut that I also heard folks like Ozzie Davis and Jesse Jackson use the term &quot;colored people&quot;. In fact, the phrase is part of NAACP so it is something I&#039;ve been familiar with much longer than PoC.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Part of me feels like, if the phrase &quot;colored people&quot; was good enough for W.E.B. Du Bois and Frederick Douglass, it&#039;s certainly good enough for me. But point taken. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Speaking of Douglass, if you go to the Art Institute, see if the daguerreotype of him is still on display. There&#039;s a link to it at FS.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As for the rest of your comment, I agree with el guante as well and made a post at FS yesterday relating to it.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Now as far as your hair goes, you&#039;ll just have to go to a different salon. See this:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.madison.com/wsj/mad/business/index.php?ntid=116187</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D &#8211; When I was growing up in the 1970s &#038; 80s, people whose ancestors came from West Africa and had a lot of melanin in their skin called themselves black and that&#8217;s how everyone else referred to them. (At least those who were being nice.) I, being of European stock and having pale skin, was always referred to as being white and that&#8217;s how I&#8217;ve always referred to myself. I&#8217;ll bet a dollar to a doughnut that I also heard folks like Ozzie Davis and Jesse Jackson use the term &#8220;colored people&#8221;. In fact, the phrase is part of NAACP so it is something I&#8217;ve been familiar with much longer than PoC.</p>
<p>Part of me feels like, if the phrase &#8220;colored people&#8221; was good enough for W.E.B. Du Bois and Frederick Douglass, it&#8217;s certainly good enough for me. But point taken. </p>
<p>Speaking of Douglass, if you go to the Art Institute, see if the daguerreotype of him is still on display. There&#8217;s a link to it at FS.</p>
<p>As for the rest of your comment, I agree with el guante as well and made a post at FS yesterday relating to it.</p>
<p>Now as far as your hair goes, you&#8217;ll just have to go to a different salon. See this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.madison.com/wsj/mad/business/index.php?ntid=116187" rel="nofollow">http://www.madison.com/wsj/mad/business/index.php?ntid=116187</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.upthedownstair.net/2007/01/hip-hop-and-madison-racism.html#comment-288</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14036982.post-116949961174564340#comment-288</guid>
		<description>Palmer - I never heard you say coloured people until I did, because I call myself coloured. But yeah, POC is the accepted term these days.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think el guante has it right about the culmulative effects of many unrelated issues. I won&#039;t pretend to understand how commercial radio works, but it&#039;s not difficult for me to imagine that a business or company might think that fans of hip hop don&#039;t &quot;need&quot; their stuff, which could be really good marketing, ignorance, or flat out racism. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Remind me to tell you the story of when I went to buy shampoo and the lady at the salon thought I just *had* to be looking for a pick (because that was the only &quot;black&quot; thing in the place).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Malicious intent does not always preclude an act of racism.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The D.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Palmer &#8211; I never heard you say coloured people until I did, because I call myself coloured. But yeah, POC is the accepted term these days.</p>
<p>I think el guante has it right about the culmulative effects of many unrelated issues. I won&#8217;t pretend to understand how commercial radio works, but it&#8217;s not difficult for me to imagine that a business or company might think that fans of hip hop don&#8217;t &#8220;need&#8221; their stuff, which could be really good marketing, ignorance, or flat out racism. </p>
<p>Remind me to tell you the story of when I went to buy shampoo and the lady at the salon thought I just *had* to be looking for a pick (because that was the only &#8220;black&#8221; thing in the place).</p>
<p>Malicious intent does not always preclude an act of racism.</p>
<p>The D.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.upthedownstair.net/2007/01/hip-hop-and-madison-racism.html#comment-289</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 03:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14036982.post-116949961174564340#comment-289</guid>
		<description>i definitely agree that ratings aren&#039;t the salient point--what I was initially trying to call attention to was the fact that every article cited &quot;stable ratings&quot; and gave an actual number (regardless of the value of that number) but no one really got around to &quot;dissecting the numbers&quot; as far as advertisers and ad-buyers were concerned. When the lack of ad revenue was the reason for the format change, that seemed like an extreme lack of &quot;reportorial oversight&quot; (sorry can&#039;t think of a better term).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As for the Janeville market being excluded--i was basically paraphrasing my most recent post (in which i kinda included the caveat &quot;yeah, what&#039;s done is done&quot; in re: to continued numbers parsing)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Nielsen supposedly lumps Rock County into the Madison market for their various ratings.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I mentioned this not to dwell on the ratings, but because it seems like the fact that the station&#039;s actually in Janesville has been downplayed/overlooked, beyond the issue of reception quality.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;i.e. there&#039;s a listener base there. How have they reacted? I&#039;m completely sidestepping race--but I never even thought to check media outlets based closer to Janesville when I was looking for information, other perspectives, etc. [i&#039;m not counting technorati]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i definitely agree that ratings aren&#8217;t the salient point&#8211;what I was initially trying to call attention to was the fact that every article cited &#8220;stable ratings&#8221; and gave an actual number (regardless of the value of that number) but no one really got around to &#8220;dissecting the numbers&#8221; as far as advertisers and ad-buyers were concerned. When the lack of ad revenue was the reason for the format change, that seemed like an extreme lack of &#8220;reportorial oversight&#8221; (sorry can&#8217;t think of a better term).</p>
<p>As for the Janeville market being excluded&#8211;i was basically paraphrasing my most recent post (in which i kinda included the caveat &#8220;yeah, what&#8217;s done is done&#8221; in re: to continued numbers parsing)</p>
<p>Nielsen supposedly lumps Rock County into the Madison market for their various ratings.</p>
<p>I mentioned this not to dwell on the ratings, but because it seems like the fact that the station&#8217;s actually in Janesville has been downplayed/overlooked, beyond the issue of reception quality.</p>
<p>i.e. there&#8217;s a listener base there. How have they reacted? I&#8217;m completely sidestepping race&#8211;but I never even thought to check media outlets based closer to Janesville when I was looking for information, other perspectives, etc. [i'm not counting technorati]</p>
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